Do we need to adjust our fee structure to be competitive?

Now that we are starting to see the dust settle on the launch, it’s clear that we are not the cheapest exchange to trade within the Cardano ecosystem.

With the addition of more exchanges coming “soon” (such as those on the Milkomeda side chain and Wingriders/Maladex), do we have a plan to address this imbalance / enhance our unique selling point.

Is this something that we should be looking to address?

Or are we confident that we have sufficient value on the platform to warrant the premium?

As a point of reference we are now $43.5m behind Minswap in TVL.

Edit: in the last ~24hrs, TVL is now $66m behind Minswap. $174m (Min) / $108m Sundae.

  • Yes (needs addressing)
  • No (sufficient value)

0 voters

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I think there’s something reasonable to this, although it should also be noted since community members are running software on their own time to operate the DEX, there’s gotta be some middleground so we aren’t robbing peter to pay paul. I suppose at some point it’s a question of if there are too many scoopers? How decentralized do we want the DEX to be? If there’s only a need for 1 scooper then certainly there isn’t a need for as high scooper fees, for example, since all those fees being earned are being given to a single person.


I think what would be really useful is for the community to understand more information about the scoopers. I.e:

How many there are,
what the financials driving it are
Any plans regarding the future of scoopers.

The above would be a good start for the community to be informed on the protocol.

I would argue if we don’t share this information within the community, then we aren’t really able to govern ourselves sufficiently.

If we have an inner circle and and outer circle of governance, that’s fine but we should be open about acknowledging it.


This may be tangential to the title of this post but I believe that the most important issue to deal with first, which may in fact justify the current fee structure, is the utility of the token itself. What is the utility of the Sundae token? And what can it be? Because if this issue is not addressed, the fee structure discussion itself could be obsolete.


2.5 is just high thats all imo

Also artem… banning people from discord is tyrannical and mentally weak just because they disagree with you :slight_smile:

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The LP dropping has to do with impermanent loss, not the expense of the trades. The difference in pricing is small, and often better on Sundae because of the higher token value difference between DEX’s. The early percentages for farm yielding LP on Min are very high. I do better with my swapping of Min on Sundae after I harvest my Min from Minswap. LP’s in the Sundae pool are taking a beating as the Sundae value is now below Min, but was as high as .5 less than 14 days ago. The 30 day lock and no stable coin to help offset is brutal. This is the most important pool for the DEX.

Minswap has no LP lockup
Minswap has deeper LPs
Minswap has cheaper fees
Minswap has higher volumes
Minswap has higher APRs (not just 1)
Minswap has MINt tokens for yield boost and 1:1 swap utility.

*Minswap is only doing with APRs what Sundae has already done, start high and come down.

Prices In ADA @ 15:10 UTC 22/03/22:

Sundae on SS = 0.354961
Sundae on Min = 0.346896

LQ on SS = 115.003
LQ on Min = 116.308

WMT on Ss = 0.737592
WMT on Min = 0.745085

I know which exchange I’m currently utilising to get the best value.

…and I say all this as an OG fan of Sundaeswap. Minswap is eating our lunch… and many more exchanges will come along that will take more, faster.


I am supplying LP on both exchanges.

There’s no question that Minswap has added some nice features (ZAP, floating APR’s across multiple pairs), but in the end it is what can be earned. Minswap is barely a week old. With the boost going away, and the ability to close out positions at any time, it will be interesting to see if LP stays.

Minswap is better known in Asia, there are more Cardano holders from that region, and Minswap (although still slow), has the benefit of updates on the blockchain protocol, that Sundae didn’t have.

As of yesterday I earned more than 2 ADA per MIN/ADA swap on Sundae when converting my Min harvest than on Minswap. Min fees are minimum 4 ADA per transaction regardless. That isn’t the case on Sundae where they can be as low as 2 ADA. Thus, I would harvest on Minswap, and swap on Sundae. You can see the amount you get before the swap, and a direct comparison showed (again, as of yesterday, haven’t chacked today) I would do better on Sundae. LP is a different story though.

In general, because of the higher yield, I have moved most of my LP positions to Minswap. If they tank, I will close them out. It’s nice for me, but could be a problem for the DEX if everyone cashes out.

This highlights the point of how important LP rewards are. If Sundae were to get Djed, or some kind of stable coin, LP’s could take a position to protect against impermanent loss. If they added concentrated liquidity pools, LP’s could earn more, and risk less.


Sorry, both protocols have a global following and fanbase. I’m inclined to believe you have based this statement on conflating the fact that the founder and some of the team are Asian. That’s like suggesting people will mainly use Sundaeswap if they are from where Pi is based. I for one am a fan of both protocols and I’m European - go figure.

Sorry but this is incorrect, I can only assume you are referring to 4 ADA based on the ‘Deposit’ of 2ADA which is returned in exactly the same way as the deposit works on Sundaeswap.

Once again, to be clear, I am not bashing Sundaeswap, however what I am doing is talking openly and honestly about the differences between Sundaeswap and its current competitors.

Disclaimer: as a business analyst and product owner in my professional career, this is something I have a lot of experience in.

My point of all of this is we need to look unemotionally at the facts and look at how we mitigate competitive weaknesses and find a way to recover market position.

If something sexier than Minswap comes along, those users aren’t miraculously coming back to Sundae because of its ice cream artwork and great development team. On this point, Milkomeda have just announced they are launching next week. So I guess the clock is ticking.



No disagreement at all.

Your inclination is wrong and rather insulting. I have family in Hong Kong, Singapore, Vietnam and mainland China. If you were to participate in the non-english speaking forums you would see the evidence. You also need to recognize the population size difference.

I am interested in all the DEX’s on Cardano doing well. I am participating in as many as possible, so I harbor no favor or ill will to any of them. I am only pointing out what I see as the weaknesses in each.

Same here.

I don’t think this is relevant. Let’s stick to the actual content. I wrote the one of the first pricing protocols for options on debt contracts, so I am not unfamiliar.



Either that or perhaps any added value we can do to five justification for higher fee structure. Sometimes it’s not neccesarrily lower down the fee, most product/solution that goes to price competitive war will suffer. But not reevaluating can also suffer. Just my 2cent

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Technically the value there depends on if you’re a buy or a seller of that token. Numerous times I have used Sundae lately, since the price benefits my side of the transaction over Muesli or Minswap. The fee issue is less of an issue when you’re buying larger sums, as far as I can tell. To me, the 2.5 ADA fees is almost negligible when my average swap size is 5k+ ADA. I have more of an issue as to where that ADA is going personally, and the fact that it’s not at all going back into Sundae token to provide some value to the holders confuses me, since the tokenomics don’t really make sense.


I’m pretty turned off by the fees. DeFi should enable high frequency of activity and fees should be almost non-existent or the concept loses its value REALLY quickly. Trying to claim rewards frequently and re-stake in order to compound your interest is a non-starter once fees are introduced. And small trades aren’t even worth executing. I started using DeFi on Polygon 9 months ago or so because of the low fees (currently gas is <.01 per transaction and the DEX fees are around .30% with no fix fee). Adding a 2ADA fee on top of that just ruins it. As eager as I am to move my DeFi activity to Cardano it’s not going to happen until those fees are gone.


its crazy how much scoopers r making were here because were r not rich yes it is cheaper than eth by far but if we want more tvl we have 2 relize a lot of people r not puttin 1000 in lq farm i put 100 in ada sun and i have taken a bath not even taking in2 account the fact sun has dropped lets say sun is where it was at month and a half ago my rewards still are less than my fees 2 buy sun then provide lq add in the lose of sun value ugh this is why a lot of people r upset im here 4ever but we need 2 keep having these discussions it all starts from the top though and a lot of people feel like their complaints r falling on deph ears so lets c if this one will stay on the board.

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To create desirability for the token price we need to incentivise the Token holders for eg. If i get same amount of yeild on Sundae token compared to WMT or LQ token than why should I not sell sundae for WMT or LQ token which has earning possibility in multiple exchanges, to rectify this situation we need to reserve 40-50% of the LP incentives only for Sundae-Ada liquidity pool.
2nd Coinburn is a totally hated word in the Cardano community but i feel when it comes to exchanges it works brilliantly ( eg. Binance CeX) so we can use profits or fees from the trading fees to buy back and burn coins from Sundae-Ada liquidity pool.
If possible provide additional sundae token inflation to incentivise other liquidity pools of various Cardano native tokens.